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	<title>Comments for The Fortnightly Review</title>
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	<description>&#039;the stroke of an oar given in true time&#039;</description>
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		<title>Comment on &#8216;The Victorians were indeed substantially cleverer than modern populations&#8217;. by A. Johnson</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/05/the-victorians-substantially-cleverer-modern-populations/comment-page-1/#comment-10683</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 12:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10398#comment-10683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Ben: That was a proper scientific report. Not trying to be snide, but maybe the point&#039;s been proven.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ben: That was a proper scientific report. Not trying to be snide, but maybe the point&#8217;s been proven.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8216;The Victorians were indeed substantially cleverer than modern populations&#8217;. by Ben</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/05/the-victorians-substantially-cleverer-modern-populations/comment-page-1/#comment-10681</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 11:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10398#comment-10681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I very much doubt this claim would stand up to proper scientific rigour. 
&quot;Simple visual reaction time in a meta-analytic study&quot; - what??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much doubt this claim would stand up to proper scientific rigour.<br />
&#8220;Simple visual reaction time in a meta-analytic study&#8221; &#8211; what??</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by David Latane</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10597</link>
		<dc:creator>David Latane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 May 2013 15:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Juxtaposing these two anthologies made for an especially interesting review.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juxtaposing these two anthologies made for an especially interesting review.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by mark goodwin</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10412</link>
		<dc:creator>mark goodwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 May 2013 16:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Longbarrow Press recently published a blog, by me, about poetry publishing,  which relates closely to this issue of &#039;status&#039; versus &#039;value&#039;. 
http://longbarrowblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/a-piece-of-my-mind-mark-goodwin/ 

I know that many poets suffer under heavy-handed, status-driven editors. I&#039;m fortunate that my publishers, the likes of Longbarrow and Shearsman, are delicate, nimble visionaries seeking value. (That’s not to say that the heavy-handed publishers always manage to flatten their poets!)

Below, I’ve lifted just a few lines from my Longbarrow blog, which connect here:

I enjoy encouraging others to write poetry, but it is tainted for me; by knowing that should I ever help to get someone to become a poet they will very likely end up entering any of various literati-combat zones where their creative rights are far down the agenda.

It is a shame to say that, as a mentor of poets, it is my responsibility to help the poet shed (or at least knowingly engage with) any delusions inflicted upon them by the various cultural machines that construct and project competing notions of what poetry ‘should’ or ‘should not’ be. (I have no problems with debated notions of ‘could-bes’.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Longbarrow Press recently published a blog, by me, about poetry publishing,  which relates closely to this issue of &#8216;status&#8217; versus &#8216;value&#8217;.<br />
<a href="http://longbarrowblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/a-piece-of-my-mind-mark-goodwin/" rel="nofollow">http://longbarrowblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/a-piece-of-my-mind-mark-goodwin/</a> </p>
<p>I know that many poets suffer under heavy-handed, status-driven editors. I&#8217;m fortunate that my publishers, the likes of Longbarrow and Shearsman, are delicate, nimble visionaries seeking value. (That’s not to say that the heavy-handed publishers always manage to flatten their poets!)</p>
<p>Below, I’ve lifted just a few lines from my Longbarrow blog, which connect here:</p>
<p>I enjoy encouraging others to write poetry, but it is tainted for me; by knowing that should I ever help to get someone to become a poet they will very likely end up entering any of various literati-combat zones where their creative rights are far down the agenda.</p>
<p>It is a shame to say that, as a mentor of poets, it is my responsibility to help the poet shed (or at least knowingly engage with) any delusions inflicted upon them by the various cultural machines that construct and project competing notions of what poetry ‘should’ or ‘should not’ be. (I have no problems with debated notions of ‘could-bes’.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by Andrew Jordan</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10397</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But one important challenge within our poetry culture has got to be that of discriminating between status and real value.&quot; (Matthew Clegg.) The failure to address that issue is something that unites the various aspects of &#039;contemporary poetry&#039; in the UK and perhaps elsewhere. That is partly because those who have the status or are focused on achieving it take to the subject like a vampire to holy water.

And of course, status is easier to measure - especially so if you are an academic - defining real value is more difficult. But I&#039;m sure we would all agree that sometimes difficulty denotes virtue. It depends on the particular difficulty and the particular poem, etc. It would be a shame if there were bad feeling in a debate about the various kinds of difficulty. 

I enjoy &#039;difficult&#039; poetry but think that a lot of nonsense is talked about some versions of it. Were poetry a science there would perhaps be a bit less of that nonsense being produced from universities, but I&#039;m sure those people have to be seen to be doing something. 

Going to the sources, in this case books of poems, I can happily say that I enjoyed reading Keston Sutherland&#039;s The Stats on Infinity nearly as much as Peter Riley&#039;s Excavations. (In being honest about my preferences I&#039;m splitting a hair, they are both things that I will read again in the future with pleasure.) I experienced - and I&#039;m about to give a totally subjective opinion here - my reading of both books in similar ways. (And I don&#039;t live that far from Brighton, I might even have been in that sweaty audience.) 

Having said that, I don&#039;t think a high regard for the feelings (and status?) of J. H. Prynne explains the response above. Perhaps I am mistaken, but it does make him seem a bit like a sticking plaster that is there to hide some other wound. Words like proportion and perspective sprang to mind. If I offend a priest should I be lectured about how I have slighted the image of God? I&#039;d think such a priest had status anxieties. &quot;Babylon is burning . . . &quot; I might remark, quoting a pop song and revealing my age.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But one important challenge within our poetry culture has got to be that of discriminating between status and real value.&#8221; (Matthew Clegg.) The failure to address that issue is something that unites the various aspects of &#8216;contemporary poetry&#8217; in the UK and perhaps elsewhere. That is partly because those who have the status or are focused on achieving it take to the subject like a vampire to holy water.</p>
<p>And of course, status is easier to measure &#8211; especially so if you are an academic &#8211; defining real value is more difficult. But I&#8217;m sure we would all agree that sometimes difficulty denotes virtue. It depends on the particular difficulty and the particular poem, etc. It would be a shame if there were bad feeling in a debate about the various kinds of difficulty. </p>
<p>I enjoy &#8216;difficult&#8217; poetry but think that a lot of nonsense is talked about some versions of it. Were poetry a science there would perhaps be a bit less of that nonsense being produced from universities, but I&#8217;m sure those people have to be seen to be doing something. </p>
<p>Going to the sources, in this case books of poems, I can happily say that I enjoyed reading Keston Sutherland&#8217;s The Stats on Infinity nearly as much as Peter Riley&#8217;s Excavations. (In being honest about my preferences I&#8217;m splitting a hair, they are both things that I will read again in the future with pleasure.) I experienced &#8211; and I&#8217;m about to give a totally subjective opinion here &#8211; my reading of both books in similar ways. (And I don&#8217;t live that far from Brighton, I might even have been in that sweaty audience.) </p>
<p>Having said that, I don&#8217;t think a high regard for the feelings (and status?) of J. H. Prynne explains the response above. Perhaps I am mistaken, but it does make him seem a bit like a sticking plaster that is there to hide some other wound. Words like proportion and perspective sprang to mind. If I offend a priest should I be lectured about how I have slighted the image of God? I&#8217;d think such a priest had status anxieties. &#8220;Babylon is burning . . . &#8221; I might remark, quoting a pop song and revealing my age.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Writers Museum, Dublin: tat and ephemera. by Sergei</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/dublin-writers-museum/comment-page-1/#comment-10396</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10173#comment-10396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is amusing, good stuff by one of my favourites. I wonder if they have the Irish-American Dunleavy&#039;s cap!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is amusing, good stuff by one of my favourites. I wonder if they have the Irish-American Dunleavy&#8217;s cap!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by Tom Field</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10391</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Field</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 17:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anyone want to talk about poetry?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone want to talk about poetry?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by mark goodwin</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10390</link>
		<dc:creator>mark goodwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hlo Matt, you may know that Chris Jones and myself used to joke about our being &#039;Lost Gregories.&#039; I think there must be quite a few &#039;Lost Gregories&#039;. The award really boosted my confidence, something I am grateful for, but later I too felt confused by the gleam bounced off The Gregory Road&#039;s yellow bricks ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hlo Matt, you may know that Chris Jones and myself used to joke about our being &#8216;Lost Gregories.&#8217; I think there must be quite a few &#8216;Lost Gregories&#8217;. The award really boosted my confidence, something I am grateful for, but later I too felt confused by the gleam bounced off The Gregory Road&#8217;s yellow bricks &#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by Matthew Clegg</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10386</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Clegg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I share many of the anxieties expressed here. Peter’s article/review seems fresh, honest and independent.

I received an Eric Gregory Award in 1997. For a few years this opened doors for me, including one prestigious residency. I can quite honestly say it took me much longer to adjust to the culture this gave me entry into – a culture I was ill equipped to deal with, and eager to exit. 

After a brief period of feeling validated – even inflated – doubt and cynicism set in as I witnessed the unattractive aspects of poetry careerism – be they those of the so-called Gregory Trail, or those of poets sheltering comfortably in various validating, but insulated institutions. 

I was happy to admit I didn’t have the stomach (or even the talent) for it; but perhaps more to the point, I felt like it was steering my poetry away from values and (modest?) concerns that were real and necessary to me.

Poetry should be tested out there in the world. I share Brian’s concern that many thoughtful, sensitive people are exiting poetry events with a reluctance to return. They are perfectly equipped to think their way into an appreciation of much that is written – but they simply find the career/institutional machinery and surrounding chatter meaningless or alienating. 

Real value is hard to talk about without seeming to be contentious. I hesitate before even trying. But one important challenge within our poetry culture has got to be that of discriminating between status and real value. I feel there is much status awarded, but less real value earned or achieved. 

I’d eagerly read any review, or participate in any discussion, that sharpened my wits to meet this challenge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share many of the anxieties expressed here. Peter’s article/review seems fresh, honest and independent.</p>
<p>I received an Eric Gregory Award in 1997. For a few years this opened doors for me, including one prestigious residency. I can quite honestly say it took me much longer to adjust to the culture this gave me entry into – a culture I was ill equipped to deal with, and eager to exit. </p>
<p>After a brief period of feeling validated – even inflated – doubt and cynicism set in as I witnessed the unattractive aspects of poetry careerism – be they those of the so-called Gregory Trail, or those of poets sheltering comfortably in various validating, but insulated institutions. </p>
<p>I was happy to admit I didn’t have the stomach (or even the talent) for it; but perhaps more to the point, I felt like it was steering my poetry away from values and (modest?) concerns that were real and necessary to me.</p>
<p>Poetry should be tested out there in the world. I share Brian’s concern that many thoughtful, sensitive people are exiting poetry events with a reluctance to return. They are perfectly equipped to think their way into an appreciation of much that is written – but they simply find the career/institutional machinery and surrounding chatter meaningless or alienating. </p>
<p>Real value is hard to talk about without seeming to be contentious. I hesitate before even trying. But one important challenge within our poetry culture has got to be that of discriminating between status and real value. I feel there is much status awarded, but less real value earned or achieved. </p>
<p>I’d eagerly read any review, or participate in any discussion, that sharpened my wits to meet this challenge.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The youth tactic. by mark goodwin</title>
		<link>http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/2013/04/youth-britain-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-10384</link>
		<dc:creator>mark goodwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fortnightlyreview.co.uk/?p=10152#comment-10384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I spend much of my time trying to encourage those who do not usually engage with poetry or poetic ways of thinking and being, to have a go at making poetry. I&#039;ve worked with school children and adults, and over the years discovered that it is easy to help people actually make poetry, to help them make words come together in ways that can open fields of possibility. However, too often it is impossible for me to convince people, children or adults alike, that what they have just created is valid, and so the fields of possibility remain inaccessible to them. The best way to hide poetry from people is to make them feel inadequate in the presence of an edifice called ‘Poetry’ - and I think that is what might have happened for a lot of the people I work with. Poetry as the smooth dark-grey block at the start of 2001 A Space Odyssey. Of course, commercial advertising depends on that smooth block - fields of possibility don’t grow cash-crops. Poetry is not post-modern, it is not modernist, nor romantic, nor martian, nor eco; poetry is not any of the ‘labels’ required (or not) to make descriptions about it. poetry is just &#039;someone saying something about something [in some way] to someone&#039; - and it is a shame, a true shame to be disgusted with, that so often I witness a complete novice write or utter something with poetic integrity and power, and yet the delusions foisted upon them prevent them knowing their own creativity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spend much of my time trying to encourage those who do not usually engage with poetry or poetic ways of thinking and being, to have a go at making poetry. I&#8217;ve worked with school children and adults, and over the years discovered that it is easy to help people actually make poetry, to help them make words come together in ways that can open fields of possibility. However, too often it is impossible for me to convince people, children or adults alike, that what they have just created is valid, and so the fields of possibility remain inaccessible to them. The best way to hide poetry from people is to make them feel inadequate in the presence of an edifice called ‘Poetry’ &#8211; and I think that is what might have happened for a lot of the people I work with. Poetry as the smooth dark-grey block at the start of 2001 A Space Odyssey. Of course, commercial advertising depends on that smooth block &#8211; fields of possibility don’t grow cash-crops. Poetry is not post-modern, it is not modernist, nor romantic, nor martian, nor eco; poetry is not any of the ‘labels’ required (or not) to make descriptions about it. poetry is just &#8216;someone saying something about something [in some way] to someone&#8217; &#8211; and it is a shame, a true shame to be disgusted with, that so often I witness a complete novice write or utter something with poetic integrity and power, and yet the delusions foisted upon them prevent them knowing their own creativity.</p>
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